Episode 15: Visionary Voices with Adam Gale

Larry Kaiser: Hello, and welcome to this episode of Visionary Voices. Today, I’m joined by Adam Gale, co-founder and CEO of KLAS. And for those of you that may not know, KLAS helps healthcare providers make informed technology decisions by offering accurate, honest, and impartial vendor performance information through interviewing thousands of healthcare organizations across the globe. Adam, thanks for joining the podcast today.

Adam Gale: Happy to be here, and happy to share a few minutes with you, Larry.

Larry Kaiser: Awesome. Well, I appreciate you joining, and so our first segment we like to call, Bandwidth Banter. And, this is where we like to have a little bit of fun with our guests and help people kind of understand who they are outside of the business world. So, you know, we’ve known each other for a while. I know you have a very robust family with 6 kids.

We were at a conference, what, last September, and you… shared the story of your son trying to learn how to do a backflip on his bike, and then during that conference, you very proudly showed a video of him landing one. So, where are we in backflip world these days?

Adam Gale: Larry, it’s crazy. So I have 3 teenage boys at home, I have 5 boys total, 1 daughter, so I like to say our house is packed with energy, but approaching zero in terms of sanity. And, and so… so he’s out doing backflips, he just spent a week in… at Whistler Bike Park. in, Vancouver, and, only got stitches once. And and survived the whole thing. He has all kinds of jumps and flips and things he’s done.

I also have a son who is training to do the skeleton in the Olympics. When they come to Salt Lake City. I have another son who just bought a mannequin off the internet and, makes his own gear. Like, this is like one of those sports mannequins, and he actually makes his own jerseys, pants, helmets. So, we have all kinds of crazy things happening, at our house. If anyone ever wants to come check it out, kind of the Gale Family Zoo.

Larry Kaiser: So I hear entrepreneur, Hopeful Olympian, and Daredevil.

Adam Gale: Yes, that would be a great summary of those three.

Larry Kaiser: Fantastic, alright. Now, of course, obviously, across all the different sports and everything, I’m sure you have a favorite sports team, and you do live in the area of, you know, the Utah Jazz, but what… what are your favorite sport team? Which one do you root for the most?

Adam Gale: Yes, so draft is tonight. We’re hoping the Jazz make a great pick. World Cup’s happening, so I cheer for the U.S. Italy is actually my favorite team to cheer for. They’re not in the World Cup. But, if you can see my background here, I have a BYU football. That is where my heart goes. College sports, BYU football and basketball. You will find me at almost every game, and oftentimes on the road with one of those boys, catching a game.

Larry Kaiser: Fantastic, and as I’m looking in your background, I have to ask, I see a Best in KLAS Award back there. What award have you been awarded at KLAS?

Adam Gale: I’m not sure I should be able to share those things, When you’re the CEO, you don’t give awards. I’d hate to go ask, like, what award I would get if, like, there was, like, a secret ballot in the background, but I do love the KLAS team and the people that we work with, and the companies that we get to wrestle with every day.

Larry Kaiser: Fantastic. All right, well, thanks for the insight into the Gale life. And, hopefully our listeners, got, you know, understand that you’re a busy man with 5 boys and lots of fun going on, so… All right, let’s dive into the meat of the conversation here.

You know, I’ll preface this by saying, you know, as somebody who’s been in healthcare IT for 22 years now, has worked for organizations that didn’t really get involved with KLAS, and then work with an organization now that’s very involved with KLAS, You know, you guys have a… Unique level of trust in the industry.

And, I was wondering if you can kind of talk a little bit about How you’ve been able to gain that trust and keep it for as long as you’ve had.

Adam Gale: So… so there’s lots of things I could share on that front. I want to just share two quick stories, if I can, Larry, that I think kind of encapsulate this. The first is the origin story, like, where this idea came from. Kent, who’s my father, Kent Gale was working at SunQuest, and this was 30… plus years ago. And, they were sitting in a boardroom. Talking about going public, taking the company public, you know, it’s a very sort of stressful time.

Finances get, you know, hyper-looked over. And, there was a discussion about how much they could actually cut support from the SunQuest customers without people really feeling it, and how much better that would make the finances look. And he sat there thinking. you know, we’ve been pitching customers for years how great our support is, like, that’s one of the key reasons you’d go with SunQuest.

Now we’re talking about, on purpose, making it worse. He thought, why doesn’t anyone measure, like, what actually happens? Like, what decisions are actually made, and how vendors really do back in the, you know, in the real universe? And this is before Google reviews, before Yelp, before any of those things. And, so he literally quit his job at SunQuest. jumped off and said, let’s start a company that measures the truth.

And went to a whole bunch of his provider CIO friends, asked them for their candid measurements, and a year later, there was kind of the first best-in-KLAS report. So that’s sort of the beginning, was just getting these provider voices out in the universe. But, but you talk about trust and how that gets earned, and I want to just share really quickly one of the most, maybe, stressful moments where this kind of comes into, into focus.

I got a call one night at home from the CEO of a big public company. And, that did not happen often, you know, cell phone call from a big CEO on a Sunday night. But this CEO, was very intent on us not publishing a report that was about to come out on their new EHR. So it was a new EHR, their historical EHR had done quite well. This new EHR was just a dog, though.

I mean, it was… I mean, not just, like, poor support kinds of things, like, the technology just didn’t work. people were documenting things on patients, and it would get saved to a different patient. So if you can imagine, like, the level of stress From these original customers, So this CEO asks us to not publish this data. And and I’m kind of closing my eyes and picturing my friends who are counting on this data to make better decisions.

And the CEO said, look, these friends of yours will make the same decisions, this will just slow down their decision process, it’ll make it really fuzzy. And I’m thinking, if I had to go to these friends of mine and say, hey, we had this data about how bad the solution was, and we just didn’t share it with you. they would… I don’t know, I just couldn’t look myself in the mirror again. So… so we… validated the data with some of our board members.

We published the report. It was the right thing to do to get the truth out there. In those very early days of KLAS, we ended up losing a million dollars because of that decision. And, But the reality is that it wasn’t… there wasn’t a decision to make. It… you know, our job is to find… courageously find and tell the truth. And and I think the reality is that plays out. And if you picture a provider, like, going to kind of do a sniff test.

I think if they saw the biggest vendors always at the top, like, whoever that might be… I mean, you could picture who that might be. Hey, if that big vendor’s always at the top. and you know they’re not doing a very good job, I think the providers come in and have a sniff test, and then realize that this really is feedback from their peers.

Larry Kaiser: Yeah, I… what you said, that second story really resonates, because, you know, as a marketer in this industry. I get asked a lot of questions from other marketers about KLAS, and a lot of that is, it’s pay-to-play. Right, is that you’re gonna… unless you pay KLAS the, you know, the membership fee, you… you’ll always get ranked poorly and all that stuff, and I think that story once again, proves that is not true, right?

You are going to publish data Positive or negative, no matter what, because that’s what the industry tells you, and that’s why you’ve become a trusted source for this, or the go-to For executives that are looking to make decisions that involve a lot of money.

Adam Gale: And Larry, one of my favorite things is calling the CEOs at the end of every year when we’re giving our best-in-KLAS awards, the CEOs who are not members of KLAS. And they… they kind of look at me sideways, kind of like. oh, like, I really wondered if this was pay-to-play, and if it, like, if to win, we had to pay money. And the reality is, you don’t.

Obviously, we work with lots of the vendors out in the market, but you do not have to pay to win. And the hard part is there are some companies out there that the more you pay, the better you look. I think that’s just part of the reality. And, it is a hard thing to tell the truth when there’s a… subscriber that’s a vendor that we’re gonna say something rough about. But, if you come to KLAS, on the walls it says.

Everything we do must benefit the provider. That is the number one KLAS commandment. So everything we filter is by our provider executive friends. When they read this, when they find this, what are they gonna think? Are they gonna be… are we gonna help them in a decision? Are they gonna look at this and say, this smells… Funny, like, somebody paid money, so we want to stay as far away from that as possible.

Larry Kaiser: And I think that’s great, and I… I… you know, I’m a true believer in what you all do. Obviously, I spend a lot of time working through KLAS, right? You know, but so many people come up to me and ask me questions all the time, and I have to debunk that myth so much. And, you know, months and months later, I get a phone call, or I see them at a show, and they’re like, you know what, you were right. I’m like, no kidding.

you know, you know, trust the process, and trust your ability to deliver, and, you know, you’ll see what happens, and there’s a lot of benefit there, so…

Adam Gale: And by the way, today, this is not an optimum advertisement by any means, but I just.

Larry Kaiser: Not loud enough.

Adam Gale: And share one thing that happened this morning. I’m on the phone with the CEO of another business that you guys partner with, and they have a few different partners, and they just shared for a couple of minutes how good the optimum partnership has been in terms of co-delivering to clients. So, that’s stuff that just gets out there. Like, when you’re good. and delivering really well.

The other reality, and I think you know this well, is how you delivered a year ago or two years ago does not equate how you’re delivering today. Like, that… That, I don’t know. Yes. You are can change if you don’t keep delivering.

Larry Kaiser: Exactly, and I think that leads right into my next question, which is… What separates the vendors who truly benefit from KLAS feedback. from those who just focus on their ranking. And… Do you think a health system can tell the difference between the two?

Adam Gale: By the way, I love this question, because there is such a big difference, and if provider executives, payer executives could sit by us in these meetings that we have, they would see, like, what really drives the vendors and how they really think. But just over the last month, I mean, you know, I get to talk with lots of vendor CEOs and provider executives. So, just one that I put side-by-side this last month.

One CEO I talked to who says, Adam, our scores aren’t good. And by the way, one vendor gets an A, one gets an F. Okay? Or D-, just not… very big gap between the two. One of the CEOs says, Adam, I think you’re talking to the wrong people. I think you’re asking the wrong questions, and at the end of the day, you can’t really compare us to others, like, we kind of sit in a universe of our own, we can’t be compared to anyone.

And that… those are very common things that I hear from the vendors that are struggling to kind of, like, deflect the feedback from their… from their clients. And I hear very different things from the very best of the best. And and one… one… before I share the questions they ask, I want to just share one experience. from a call I made to Judy Faulkner years ago. And I’d started to hear from their clients that they were nickel and diming.

And and Epic, you know, had kind of a… in the early days, a single contract, you just got everything in that single contract. And as they added new products on, they had to figure out, how do we start to charge for these things? Well, I talked to two executives that had said, Adam, I’ve never seen this before, but we’re getting nickel and dimed from Epic. So I called Judy, and I said, Judy, here’s what I’m hearing.

Two executives, didn’t share who they were or where they were, but just kind of the summary around how they were feeling. And, I’ll never forget what she said to me, which was, Adam, if you’re hearing it from two. The problem is actually probably a lot bigger than you think it is. And I’d never heard that from a CEO. I’d never heard anyone say, oh, the thing we’re struggling with is actually way bigger than you think it is.

Usually, they’re trying to minimize the size of the problem. And I think as we make problems bigger, we actually get better at solving them, because we recognize how impactful that is. So the very best CEOs ask why. They ask, what other details can I get? How else can we make good decisions from the challenges that people are facing? They ask, what kind of people should we look for that are struggling in these ways?

They look for ways to give more resources and not less resources. And, one of the other biggest things I found from early on is that the vendors that struggle like to go to the contract and say, hey, we’re meeting the contract. The vendors that really thrive say, if we ever have to pull out the contract, we know we’re in a horrible place with that client. So, just going above and beyond versus looking at the contract.

And then, one last thing from this CEO that I just talked to that’s getting an A. They said the status quo was never good enough. And so, just training their team that, look. however well we may be doing today, it’s never going to be good enough for tomorrow. So just creating that culture, I think, is a big… a big deal.

Larry Kaiser: Yeah, you know, I like to say, if you exceed expectations long enough, That becomes the expectation. So you always need to exceed.

Adam Gale: Yeah.

Larry Kaiser: To stay ahead of the game. Because just meeting expectations is not good enough any longer.

Adam Gale: But then it’s interesting to watch the team members on teams that are able to exceed expectations. They like to go to work, they like the creativity, they like what they can do. Doesn’t mean everything’s perfect, but it does feel like it’s different than, man, every day I get beat up by frustrated customers, and some vendors, that would be the job, every day getting beat up by a frustrated customer.

Larry Kaiser: Yeah.

Adam Gale: And by the way, you also ask how… And I can’t remember how you worded this, but, can health systems tell the difference between the two? And, I’ve thought a lot about this one, just recently, because I… it’s so tough. You go to, like, a hymnss show, and if you just went around the floor. I thought to myself, how would you differentiate between these folks?

Because the booths are beautiful, the people presenting are handsome and beautiful and, like, showing screens that look great. So, I feel like at the time of purchase, sometimes it’s really tough to actually tell the DNA difference between the two. Even going to these two different vendors I just described, you would see very similar type, booths. But, over time, you can sense it pretty quickly.

I think you can get a sense of, like, what really drives them. Is it the next sale, or is it, like, really being excellent with you? So, I made a list of 3 phrases that make me shudder today. That I just, again, over the years, I’ve heard these, and I’m like, -oh, when I hear that. And one of those is… We have new funding. like, a new owner.

Like, that could be a new private equity firm, that could be a new organization that just acquired… a big strategic that just bought you. And if the answer is, well, we now have new funding that will make all the difference. That is a huge gotcha. So, I mean, if you were good before and you get acquired, like.

that funding is not going to make all the difference, but I have found that when you assume that there’s going to be just money that rolls in from this PE firm or this strategic vendor, that’s never the case. They’re never just investing like crazy, not expecting something back. So that’s one. Another one is, we’ll customize this to be exactly what you need. That just makes me cringe today. Like, it sounds beautiful as a buyer.

You’re gonna, like, do exactly how we need But that just means it’s not sustainable, it’s not upgradable, it’s a service, maybe from a services firm they’ve never done before. And that makes me cringe. And then the last one, which I’m hearing a lot today, is we use AI to dot dot. Whatever that is. just makes me cringe.

Because if you’re talking about it as solving a problem, you’re not gonna highlight the AI, you’re just gonna say, hey, we can actually get this to the doctors twice… twice as fast as we could before. The folks who are struggling tend to use, oh my gosh, we can do a Gentic, we can do… so they’re talking all about the technology and not the solution. Does that make sense, Larry? That, and I’m sure you.

Larry Kaiser: It does.

Adam Gale: Same things over the years.

Larry Kaiser: Yeah, you know, I will, you know, I… you know, we try to avoid naming names here, but, you know, organization I used to work for, you know, the product that we sold was one of… it was number two on your list. We’ll customize it to be everything that you need it to be.

Adam Gale: Yeah.

Larry Kaiser: Well, that caused the biggest problems in the world, because every single client had different issues. And there’s probably a reason why that organization was not actively involved with KLAS, because I don’t understand how you can Take that feedback you’re getting from a multitude of clients, and every single client has a different version of your product, because you’ve customized it so much. You’re never gonna get…

Adam Gale: It’s a home run at the beginning, everyone’s cheering, like, you’ve done this really unique thing, and then year two, everyone’s pulling their hair out, because it can’t be sustained, you can’t upgrade it, you’re stuck on whatever version you’re on. Anyway, it’s amazing to watch the things that we naturally get pulled into and want to believe that just aren’t true.

Larry Kaiser: Yeah, it’s amazing, you know, you look at the long-term longevity of those kind of products, they don’t seem to stay in the market very long.

Adam Gale: No. You’re exactly right.

Larry Kaiser: Yeah. Alright, so… receiving… like, an organization receiving KLAS recognition is one thing, right? They’re… they’re happy to see the results of their hard work. But I’m sure, from your perspective, and I’m just saying your, but I mean KLAS as a whole.

There has to be a level of satisfaction for you, knowing that all this information that you’re collecting And all the different providers, whether it be service or product, is… benefiting a patient population somewhere.

That has to be very exciting, must be a thrill for you, but is there a… particular or favorite impact moment that you can think back on, whether it’s at the beginning or yesterday, fondly, that makes you say, I’m really excited and happy that we were able to have that positive impact?

Adam Gale: Yeah, yeah, I can think of one specific time… there’s a bunch, but one specific time… We were working with Intermountain, so we… our team lives in Salt Lake City, all the KLAS team members get our care, at Intermountain. You know, one of the premier health systems in the world. And, they had a pretty tough install 10 years ago as they worked to put Cerner in, and one of the biggest challenges was they wanted Cerner put in the Intermountain Way.

Meaning, they wanted all of Intermountain’s customized content to sit on top of Cerner. And, and it did not go very well. The implementation did not go well, it was pretty tough. And I can say a lot of that was not, Cerner’s fault, because Intermountain wanted to put in a lot of these cool things, and they’d agreed to make this super EHR together.

Well, Intermountain made what I’ll say is a wise decision to go back to the vanilla version of Cerner, which was working well for lots of other clients at the time. And, so we went in with our ARCH Collaborative measurement, which is, I’ll say a newer measurement, last decade. Which is measuring how well the clinicians are succeeding with an EHR.

And Intermountain did not score very well, how they might… a prideful organization, and I say that, like, the good prideful. They had done a great job, took great care of patients, they wanted a solution that would work really well for them. And and they measured where they were. They were not… happy with where they ended up in their measurement, and they knew it reflected where their physicians and nurses were.

But they put a number of steps in place to actually make things much better, including going back to the vanilla version of Cerner. So, again, living in Intermountain Territory, we have lots of physicians, nurses, front desk clerks that live around us, shop with us, do all of these things. And a physician came up to me one day and basically said, you know, the work that you’re doing with Intermountain saves me an hour a day.

And and just as I heard that, I thought. Okay, when the physician’s less burned out, the patients are better taken care of, the clinicians are better off, they can see their families, like, whatever that is. It just reminds you that the work we do in healthcare is really, really meaningful and not transactional, and especially when you have your own child in the ER, or, you know, at a… a doctor’s visit.

In fact, KLAS people are probably the worst to have at a visit, because they’re looking around the computer being like, hey, are you capturing allergies on that? Or, like, how do you… like, how do you interoperate with the people across the street? So, I don’t think you want a KLAS person in your health system, because we’re going to be nerdy and ask all kinds of questions about the tech.

Larry Kaiser: I think that can be said for anybody who works in healthcare IT. Like I said, I’ve been here I remember years ago, living on Long Island, my mother was having, I think a knee replacement, and she was in a hospital I’d never been to on Long Island. And I’m sitting there in the lobby. And, in the waiting room, and I start digging in through, you know, at the time was the HIMSS analytics database. And it’s like, oh, what EHR do they use?

Oh, they use a hodgepodge of things right here. Hey, sales rep, I think you should probably reach out here, there might be some opportunity, they’re a community-based hospitals, so forth and so on. And even now, you know, I live here in Jacksonville, because of course, we have Baptist Jacks. And, you know, Aaron Meary’s a CIO, it’s a very, leading-edge, bleeding-edge, cutting-edge type of organization.

And I’ll be in there with stuff, and see they’re doing some ambient, or doing this, or doing that, and then I come across Aaron at a conference, or one of our events, and I’m like, hey, I was in the hospital recently, or I was in the ER recently, and, you know, I thought it was pretty cool you guys were doing this, and it worked really well, and I just feel like we’re so… Plugged in and pay so much attention to the technology.

you know, I know my wife gets frustrated when a doc is not using Ambient and is too busy looking at the computer screen, not looking at her, right? So, we’re just… I think we’re just… We’re wired differently now, because it’s what we live and breathe every single day, and then you take it into your personal life.

Adam Gale: weird wiring, though, because it helps push things the right direction of, like, why are you not using Ambient? And I love you talk about Aaron. Aaron Meary’s one of the best of the best, and not only does he go talk, like, externally about cool things, he does a lot of really cool things in his system. And and we love finding those pioneers that are doing those, and then figuring, how do you replicate that kind of good work?

Larry Kaiser: We just had, his VP, Jim Bilsky, on the podcast, who’s someone I have known since the day I started in healthcare, and we worked at Keene together. And we talked about their growth, and how the IT department was keeping up and everything. you know, and it’s… it’s all… it all flows back up to the top, and it’s just such a well-run organization.

But, again, you know, when you have a leader like that doing all that cool stuff, and then you’re a patient there, you talk about that externally, and then there’s, you know, the best form, you know, the best form of flattery is invitation, so… you see everybody else want to do the same exact thing, so… But yeah, good commentary there.

So, for my final question, I would love to get an understanding from you, you know, here we are in 2026, Healthcare has gone through… so many changes in the last 25, 26 years. KLAS has evolved over that time. Where do you see KLAS going in, say, the next 5 to 10 years?

Adam Gale: Now, that’s the hardest of all the questions you’ve asked, Larry, because there’s so many places that I want to go, so many things that I want to do, but let me just share maybe one kind of practical thought of, I mean, the biggest challenge, I think, today is finding things that have a measurable impact. In the market, because it’s easy to, like, put something in, but it’s hard to, like, find out, does this really do what we hoped?

Are we really getting where we wanted to get? And especially with AI, every executive asked me, Adam, how do we measure the success of AI? how do we know if there’s ROI? How do we know if the physicians are better off? And and I think those questions need to end and just get to, how are we better off? How can we measure that? And not just in, like, small performance leaps, like in the market, big leaps.

So one thing specifically KLAS is going to do is to give people asking questions a new way to ask those questions. So if you come today, Larry, from Optimum, or you’re… Aaron Meary, the CIO there at Baptist, has a question, you come to our website, you find the report about implementations, or about Ambient, and you go read that, and like, you get the sense of what’s going on. I’d love to make it where you could just come and ask questions.

Like, what really works for pediatrics, or… where’s the biggest benefit for AI? Or, like. Tell us about the sites that have done the very best with implementing Ambient. or if I’m gonna put an EHR in, which implementation firm actually does the best putting in such and such a vendor? So in… so just us feeding you data. And let me share one thing I don’t think we’ve shared publicly that I think will be really cool.

You know, we have these interviews with these provider executives. Let’s say they’re a half an hour. Today, we pluck out 2 minutes of the interview, and kind of make that so you could see, hey, what did you think about whichever vendor? And we pluck out the pieces that we think are the most relevant.

Well, in the future, we think you’ll be able to use AI And, a large learning model, or small learning model, to just understand, like, ask about everything. Like, what are the things that pressure these folks? What’s the change in tone over the last 6 months for our clients? All kinds of things you can’t ask today, but I think you’ll be able to in the future.

So I’m pretty excited to take 30 years’ worth of… Data that we’ve kind of had to pluck out specific pieces, and now allow you to just ask questions of that incredible data set. So we’re… we’re geeking out. I don’t know exactly what that means still, Larry, but I’m geeking out about what that could.

Larry Kaiser: Yeah, I mean, that’s… I mean, to me, that sounds like… it’s… some form of AI agent that me, as a vendor. Can go into the system and ask questions and analysis of the… Commentary around the company, but also… probably from a provider perspective, where a CIO or somebody else can log in and say, you know, tell me about Company A doing this, and give me, an analysis of the feedback Over the last 6 months, and the system would spit that out.

Adam Gale: And that could even be a company that we’ve just barely started hearing about. They ask about it, and it’s like, hey, we’ve heard about them twice, here’s the early feedback we’re getting. So it’s not something that has a statistical background to it, necessarily, but it’s like, look, I want to know, are people talking about this? Have they made it work?

I don’t know, I sort of geek out around that, and maybe we can talk in a year and see what’s… what that actually.

Larry Kaiser: You know, I think that’s… I think that’s super cool, because as somebody who, you know, again, you know, we… I spend a lot of time collecting all of our… our clients to get them sent in to KLAS for us to get that honest feedback, because we want to know how we’re doing in the market, right? We can think we’re doing great, and when in fact, the commentary will say maybe we’re not.

But to be able to… to log in and do something like that, to me, that is… a great way to use AI, especially if you have 30 years of those recordings in there, you can actually offer to play a recording of a CIO or whomever someone was submitted, giving their actual feedback, which I think is fantastic, plus being able to scrape it and give you a whole report, like, they can spit out a document or something. I think that’s fantastic.

as a… as a user of KLAS, as a member of KLAS, I would love to see that, because that would make my life so much easier.

Adam Gale: And even then, think of this, Larry, I mean, we talk about Optimum with one of your clients for, let’s say, 10 minutes of those 30. And then there’s 20 minutes where we talk about other problems they have, other things they’re thinking about.

So, how can you now just glean stuff from the whole conversation, and not just… I mean, I know you love the part about how’s Optimum doing, because you guys really soak that up, but there’s more that I think could help you solve even more problems for some of these.

Larry Kaiser: Very much so. Yeah, let me know when I can do that, please.

Adam Gale: Great. Beta test, right here.

Larry Kaiser: I’m your bear tester, there you go. Well, hey, Adam, thank you very much. So that concludes our discussion today on Visionary Voices. I want to thank My guest, Angela joining us today. Any last insights for our listeners around, all things KLAS?

Adam Gale: No, it’s such a fun time to be around. You’re gonna see big changes from KLAS, not in… not in the data, but how we get… answer questions to you, so if anyone has feedback for us of what you’d like to see. Send it in, we’ll try to practice what we preach and listening really well.

Larry Kaiser: Fantastic. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to this episode of Visionary Voices, powered by Optum Healthcare IT. And remember, the future of healthcare IT starts with your vision. We’ll catch you next time.